Long Day's Journey Into Night - Week of September 20-27, 2010Instructions: By next Monday, September 27, please respond to the following prompt in two ways: (1) state your own opinion about the question; and (2) respond to at least two or three of your colleagues' ideas once the conversation starts flowing.
The very best responses will not only address the question squarely, but they will be based upon strong observations from the text. QUOTE THE PLAY LIBERALLY.
The Question: All four of the Tyrones are deeply flawed, and as the play unfolds, it is possible to imagine that none of them will learn from their experiences or grow in any way - that they are, in effect, flat characters. Can you make a case that one of the family members may break free from his or her demons? Do any of them have any redeeming qualities? If so, who would that be and what are those qualities?
At this point I’m convinced everyone but Edmund is a flat character, unlikely to ever change. Tyrone’s miserly tendencies never subside, as well as both addictions in the family. Also one of the main themes (blame) is tossed around frequently between family members. A reason I think Edmund can break free is that he does not fit into this pattern of playing the blame game. Instead he is most often the voice of truth, telling his family that he really is sick and might not get better. It seems like being at home is definitely detrimental to his health with his mother’s condition always haunting him. I think there’s hope he could go to the sanatorium and redeem himself, becoming cured. After that he could go out on his own and be a full man who’s not always held back by the guilt of his mothers condition.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily that Edmund seems to be the one character that could pull through this situation. I think his physical weakness may take part in his inability to truly compete with any of the other family members in the blame game. He often seems to just watch the scene and although there are times when he reacts and the audience can see he really does want change he does not have the energy to really commit to making a change in others. He does seem to be the most hopeful out of all of them though. For example, he believes his mother is strong enough to fight against the addiction when he says "You're only just started. You can still stop. You've get the will power!" (95).
ReplyDeleteAlthough I don't believe she will, part of me wants Mary to pull through. The way O'Neill has developed her character shows how much she struggles and how all she truly desires is to be happy and to have a happy family and home. She is also the source of a lot of the families problems. Although the family would have problems without Mary's addiction, her addiction is a major catalyst for the rest of the families. However her immense quilt, shown through lines like "during the two years he lived before I let him die through my neglect"(112) and the past is the present, isn't it? It's the future, too" (90), will hold her back from being able to move on with her life.
To an extent I agree with Emily and Madeleine that Edmund is the only Tyrone with the potential to overcome the troubles the family has been dealing with. He is the youngest son, which possibly could mean that he has the most amount of life ahead of him. In the event he does have the greatest quantity of years to live, Edmund has enough challenges to face that could make him believe the fight isn't worth it anymore. He has been named the replacement child for Eugene, the infant that died when Jamie was seven, and his birth is the foremost reason his mother is addicted to morphine. That burden aside, Edmund has been diagnosed with consumption, which could be treated in the sanatorium. I completely agree with Emily that in those six to twelve months he might have to spend healing, the absence of addiction and chaos could also work wonders on his mental health. Also, Jamie and Tyrone appear to be more affected by the reoccurrence of Mary's condition since they have watched it grow since the very beginning. Jamie expresses his frustration towards Edmund through, "Listen, Kid, I know you think I'm a cynical bastard, but remember I've seen a lot more of this game than you have. You never knew what was really wrong until you were in prep school. Papa and I kept it from you. But I was wise ten years or more before we had to tell you." (60). I believe that Edmund's inexperience in 'the game' will allow him to escape before he becomes completely absorbed like his brother and father.
ReplyDeleteI think what Jenny said was very accurate. Edmund needs a way to escape so he doesn't become a failure like Jaime has. I think that the Sanitarium represents hope in this novel. First of all it could cure Edmund of his consumption. Also, it can be somewhat of a rebirth for him. It could be a chance for him to turn over a new leaf. Since, Edmund is basically what what Eugene was in his earlier years. Also, it was in a Sanitarium where Eugene discovered his interest in writing.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to express some of my views on Mary. Mary continually brings up that if they lived in an actual 'home' things wouldn't be as they are. She also brings up the past more and more as she becomes higher on morphine. I think that her she brings up the past and 'home' so often because she believes her life was a lot better back when she lived with her father. She longs for her old life and she uses Morphine as a way to go back to it.
Although Edmund is the only character that seems to be able to break away from his awful habits, but his instinct to be hopeful could lead him into a bigger depression. Like his mom chooses to live in the past, and the other characters constantly say he's just like his mother. I think that if Edmund keeps getting his hopes up, like when he thought his mom was off of drugs his disappointments could lead to something deeper and darker. His sickness doesn't stop him from drinking, and it was a large drink as well. He's easy to manipulate i feel, personally i think if he's around his family, his thoughts are could lead him to spiral downward like the rest of them.
ReplyDeleteAs everyone else has been saying, Edmund is the only character who shows the possibility of breaking free from his demons. This is only recognizable in act four when Edmund and James have a sincere discussion. Edmund demonstrates redeemable qualities by finally understanding what his father has done for him and this creates the impression that Edmund has found a reason to try to improve his life rather than become like Jamie or Mary.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Emily and how Edmund is not as much involved in the blame game that occurs throughout the play however, I do not think Edmund is the only one held back by his mothers condition but I think its more the other way around. One of the reasons Mary is resorting to drugs is because she is so worried about Edmund and his health. I think Edmund is bothered by the remarks she makes about his life and that deteriorates his emotional state rather than physical.
I agree with everyone's view that Edmund is the only Tyrone who can break free from his addictive tendencies. The sanitarium, like Emily and Jenny said, could be just the thing Edmund needs to heal. He'll stop drinking cold turkey, and he'll have time by himself to process all his emotions and figure out what he wants to do with his life. Like what John was saying though, I think we are all a little biased in thinking that Edmund will succeed. We know that Edmund is O'neill's self-representation in the book, and we know O'neill goes on to be cured and have a successful career, so our natural assumption is that Edmund will do the same.
ReplyDeleteAs for redeeming characteristics, I think Edmund has the most. He does not constantly blame others, and he seems to be the most self-aware of the family members. On page 137, he says "But who am I to feel superior? I've done the same damned thing." He is acknowledging his problems which is something the other characters rarely do. I think Jamie also has a redeeming characteristic. Underneath the blame and denial, he does genuinely care for the rest of the family. He is worried for both Mary and Edmund and want them to get better. Jamie says on page 60 that he's "been happy as hell because I'd really begun to believe this time [that Mary was better]." And to Edmund he says, on page 166, "I love your guts. I'd do anything for you."
Everybody seems to agree that Edmund has the most redeemable qualities about him. Although as Annie and John pointed out; the character Edmund is representing O’neill. JCK was saying in class one day that we all romanticize the past. We try to only remember the good. Although it seems like O’neill doesn’t romanticize the past because this is no happy story, but maybe he makes himself seem to be the character with the most redeemable qualities. If another member of the Tyrone family were to have written this play I wonder if we would still think that Edmund was the character with the most redeemable qualities.
ReplyDeleteI also think all of the characters have a redeemable quality. All of the family members do care about each other. When Tyrone officially finds out that Edmund is sick and decides to send him to a sanatorium; he doesn’t send him to a “cheap” one. He sends him to a good place so that he can get better. Jamie clearly cares about his family because he is worried about his brother and he lets Edmund know that he loves him. And although Mary has a lot of issues she does love her children and her husband. She seems to just want what is best for them.
In the blog posts so far, I’ve noticed a common theme in the evidence we’re considering when we evaluate the likelihood of a character’s growth and development. Blame, specifically blaming others, is an indicator of the inability to progress or recover, while conversely, accepting responsibility (or looking beyond the question of responsibility) indicates the possibility of healing or development. Edmund’s reluctance to play the ‘blame game,’ then, adds depth to his character, and gives us, the reader, hope. Edmund also stands out from the rest of his family in other ways. He seems anchored in ‘reality,’ unable to trivialize his illness, as he repeatedly tries to get his mother to fully realize his diagnosis, asking “don’t you give a damn?” (O’Neill, 120). His hopeful, trusting nature further separates him from the Tyrones, contrasting starkly with the cynicism of his father and brother. Yet, when we look closer, these qualities, as evidence of potential for growth in Edmund, are questionable. His hope for his mother nears the point of complete denial, ignoring and avoiding distinct behavioral changes in Mary, that his brother and father immediately recognize as a sign of relapse. In my eyes, Edmund’s repeated attempts to have his mother recognize the severity of his illness voices a tragic need for her to be healthy, able to acknowledge reality -- and in this sense, he is hooked and his happiness or ability may be dependent on her recovery.
ReplyDeleteBut I do think Madeleine has something here - that a character’s ability to hope may be a prerequisite for development or recovery. So -- if hope is a necessary characteristic for recovery, or growth, I don’t think we can exclude Mary. While O’Neill describes her as “slipping away into her strange detachment,” and “setting into that stubborn denial,” at the very end of the play, Mary, although under the heavy influence of morphine, describes herself as searching for “something I miss terribly. It can’t be altogether lost . . . I would die if I thought that. Because then there would be no hope” (177). Mary is hopeful, and describes her self as actively engaged in trying to find what she has “lost.” We get the feeling what she is looking for is herself; the person she once was, before she lost herself in the depths of addiction and depression. Tyrone, in contrast, is described multiple times in stage directions as hopeless; “in hopeless appeal”, “trying to shake off his hopeless stupor,” as well as “a sad, defeated old man, possessed by hopeless resignation.” Does this mean Mary has more hope, or more potential for growth than Tyrone? Does Mary’s lack of knowledge of what she is looking for change our opinion? While O’Neill doesn’t give the reader a clear answer, we are left wondering what defines or limits our potential to change, and what qualities are neccesary for growth.
As many have said earlier, Edmund is a "deeper" character than the others in the sense that he has the highest likelihood of development. He has a higher chance of progressive change because he doesn't continually blame the other family members for his faults, and is often supporting other characters in blame, such as his mother. However, this is ironic because this same character is also the one that has a severe illness, that has no guarantee of cure. The other family members are having a hard time coming to terms with the severity of the illness, and even Edmund doesn't seem to display full knowledge of his state of health. As Jake said, Edmund gives a the reader a sense of "hope" based on his ability to want change, and lack of pointing fingers at others. In contrast, though, he gives us a sense of despair throughout with the lack of knowledge for the future of his illness.
ReplyDeleteThis is somewhat similar to Jake's post, which i think is very interesting. However, I don't think "blame" is an automatic indicator of being stuck, or an inability to develop. Blame can be used as a way to push reality off of yourself and onto another, or it can also be used to drag another down to your level or below you, thus as a form of defense. Jake is relying on the former to support his claim, but I think there must be denial first before this can be true. Jake is spot on when he realizes Edmund's need for his mother to accept reality, and thus recover from her addictions. Her recovery, mentally and even possibly physically, is the only way he'll be able to make a recovery.
Although I think he has many evil qualities about him, and he seems to be a somewhat uncaring person, I believe that Jamie might be able to break free from this. He is much like his father in the sense that he has a somewhat cold manner and he obviously likes alcohol. But unlike his father, he realizes how messed up the family is, and what a problem his mother is becoming. Instead of being like his father and just trying to turn a blind eye to it, he calls her out, and much to the discontentment of his father, he lets it be known that he is not pleased with the way his mother is.
ReplyDeleteObviously I would agree with everyone else in saying that Edmund also has the possibility to break free from this, but I think that it is less likely. He is like his mother, he lives in a dream world that is not real. He talks about the fog and how it makes him feel alone, and although it seems like a form of escape, I think that it is just his way of doing what the rest of the family does; hide from their problems. I disagree with saying that Jamie is a failure. Although he is much older than Edmund, he is still quite young, and he has time to turn his life around. I agree with what Jenny said about Edmund having more time because he is young, but I think that this will not happen until he comes "out of the fog".
I also disagree with what Alex said; I do not think that Edmund is any deeper than the rest of the characters. Just because he has not made any huge mistakes with his life yet (that we've seen), this does not mean he is in any way deeper than the others. In fact, because Jamie has made so many mistakes in his life, I believe that he is much deeper than Edmund. He is much older and has more life experience. Edmund seems like a somewhat naive character to me.
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ReplyDeleteAs everyone else has previously said, I think Edmund has the most redeeming quolities. Out of all the characters he blames the others the least. He still does blame others at times, "Christ! No wonder-!" (115). Unlike the others Edmund cuts himself short and does not finish what he was going to say. This shows that he tries not to put blame on any of the other characters. It really is not until act four does Edmund start to put blame on the others. If he truely wants to, he will be able to break free from all this.
ReplyDeleteAs Alex had said it is ironic that the one who has the best chance of breaking free is the one who is most likely to die soon. In a sanatorium, even under the best conditions, 50% of those who entered were dead within five years. Edmund potentially only has about five years to live. Even with this, I still think that Edmund will beable to break free.
After reading this book, I personally feel rather disgusted with both James Tyrone and Mary. I understand that they've gone through terrible circumstances, but turning to drugs and alcohol shouldn't be a coping mechanism for them. They've made life more difficult than it should have been for their two sons, and there is no excuse for this-everyone has the freedom to change their ways, recover, and begin again. I feel like they're making their lives more difficult than is necessary. Mary doesn't seem to realize that she can have control of herself, stop her addiction and improve. Clearly, this marriage is not healthy for either of them. In fact, when high, Mary tends to often blurt out things that make it appear that she wishes she had never been wed to Tyrone: " (to herself) 'You're a sentimental fool. What is so wonderful about that first meeting between a silly romantic schoolgirl and a matinee idol? You were much happier before you knew he existed, in the Convent when you used to pray to the Blessed Virgin.'" (p. 109).
ReplyDeleteI too believe that Edmund is the Tyrone most likely to overcome his troubles. As Jake noted, blame is a common theme in this play. The Tyrones often use it as a coping mechanism to deal with the problems they are unable to resolve. For example, Mary remarks: "I swore after Eugene died I would never have another baby. I was to blame for his death. If I hadn't left him with my mother to join you [Tyrone] on the road..." (p. 90) Mary also tends to blame Jamie for Eugene's death, as he went into the baby's room when he had the measles. "I've always believed Jamie did it on purpose." (p.90). Edmund, however does not use blame as a way of coping and when it comes to his sickness, he is very realistic about it, unlike his mother who does not want to believe that it is consumption rather than a bad cold. On page 57 he remarks, "I know how rotten I feel, and the fever and chills I get at night are no joke." However, despite that fact that Edmund is realistic about his illness, he is not about his mother's morphine addiction. On the one hand, the hope he holds in his heart for his mother's recovery could make him feel a bit stronger and less destroyed by the situation. On the other hand, it could prove harmful to him later if she does not improve. In other words, this false sense of hope could set him up for grief stronger than of his father's or brother's.
I agree with Madeleine in that Mary is definitely holding back, and almost refusing to improve. On page 90, she remarks: "The past is the present, isn't it? It's the future, too. We all try to lie out of that but life won't let us." It is exactly this kind of mindset that is keeping Mary from improving.
I am going to sound repetative, but I agree that Edmund does have the most potential of breaking free. He has the advantage of being able to go to the sanatorium, he has the most life to live, and we are a little bias when reading this play. However, after reading all of these posts, some of the things Austin and Ben said about Jamie, stuck out to me.
ReplyDeleteJamie does seem to care about every member of his family, even if he doesn't show it all the time. Jamie seems to have the biggest heart, and he is being tortured inside, while he is watching his family slowly fall apart. I think this accounts for some of his alcoholic tendencies. If his mother had not been addicted to morphine, and his father had not held such high expectations, he might not have turned to alcohol. The perfect example of Jamie's character is when he goes to the whore house, and choses the fat woman to take upstairs because he feels bad that no one chooses her, and he decides to just talk and let them both get everything off their chests. After he tells Edmund this, I had a whole new respect for Jamie and I could tell that he cared about people. I also believe that Edmund is impressionable, making it hard for him to be strong willed and fight off all of the poor habits of his family. Even if he is in the sanatorium, he could still be influenced by other people, which could make it very difficult to get better and to break his addiction.
Edmund, out of everyone in his family, is the one person who has the voice of reason. Everyone in this play is haunted by something and Edmund is no exception, but it is not by what they are haunted but how they let it affect their lives. Edmund has the best head on his shoulders in the sense that he deals with his demons rationally instead of constantly drowning them in alcohol like his brother and father. I agree however with the point that Mackenzie said about Edmund being impressionable. If there was one solid character that wasn't corruptible it wouldn't be the same story, and because Edmund doesn't do drugs and isn't an alcoholic, he has to have his weakness. His sickness however isn't seen in my mind as a weakness because he dealt with it to the best of his ability. He accepted that he could do nothing except go to the sanatorium. It was his mother that couldn't deal with it. I also agree with Jenny because he doesn't have as much life experience as his family members and he can get out. "Experience" in this sense to me means addiction and depression because thats what they all have. Edmund being younger and less "experienced" still has a way out. It is just up to him to make that choice on his own.
ReplyDeleteAlong with most people I think out of the four Tyrones, Edmund is the one that is most likely to ‘break free’ from what he is dealing with in this home. While reading I found a passage where Edmund addresses the problem with his family blaming everyone instead of taking the blame, along with him trying to finally break free and try to get over his illness. On the bottom of page 121/top of page 122, “Oh, stop talking crazy, can’t you, Mama! Stop trying to blame him. And why are you so against my going away now? I’ve been away a lot, and I’ve never noticed it broke your heart!”
ReplyDeleteWhat John and Austin said about Mary really stuck out to me. It is fascinating that many of us have said that Edmund is the character whom we feel may “break free” from his demons, but as Austin said that “the other characters constantly say he's just like his mother.” In some ways this seems like a contradiction, where the mother uses her morphine to stay in the past, and Edmund is the character most likely to break free from this life, yet he is just like his mother? They are similar in the way that they are both trying to get to a place where they are happier, but the ways they are trying to achieve this is different. Edmund physically trying to break free from their home, where Mary is mentally trying to break free from this home using morphine to live in the past where she was indeed happier.
While Edmund is definitely the easiest character to sympathize with, he still has his demons. He may not be a morphine or as much of a drunk as his brother, but he does have a dark, almost nihilistic view of life. That is his biggest demon. In a way, I think that his drinking is almost a form of accepting death. He knows that he has consumption and that drinking is very bad for him while in this weakened state, and yet he still gets hammered. He is always quoting from dark passages, such as, "'They are not long, the days of wine and roses"'. This dark view of the world seems engrained in him, as he always come back to it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Blair that all of the characters have some redeeming qualities. There are moments with each character when the reader sees a glimpse of hope. Mary is clean for at least two months, James concedes to putting Edmund in a better sanatorium, Jamie warns Edmund against trusting him, and Edmund shows optimism towards the members of his family. It is also evident that all members of the family want the best for each other.
Emily's comment about how Edmund's absence from the home may help his situation rings true to me as well. JCK mentioned how behaviors are a result of one's environment. I feel like there's hope for all of the characters, in the sense that if they were in different environments their demons would be less severe. Away from her family, Mary wouldn't be as haunted by her past, or reminded of it anyway. Ben correctly state that Edmund is naïve, and so is impressionable. He has been shaped by Jamie, and so if he can get away from him there is hope that he will change. Also, I think that Tyrone's drinking is exacerbated by the presence of Mary. If she were out of the picture, there would be hope for him as well. Lastly, Jamie's cynicism is almost always directed toward the members of his family, and I also think that his alcoholism is a form of escape from the problems in his family. Remove him from the environment, and he also may have hope.
I agree with Ben, though Edmund is more realistic than his mother, he too lives in a dream-like state. I believe that because of Edmund always having attempted to follow in his brothers footsteps and be something he's not, that he does not seem like a character that is bound to change his ways any more than the others. I feel there is no evidence to prove he can "break free" from his past/future. My proof, as Sofia stated, the parents are where the problem starts. Edmund lives with his parents still, therefore still being influenced by them and the drug addiction and the lying two-facedness. I believe, on the contrary to most people, that Jamie is the only character with the possibility to change, because he "escapes" each year, back to New York, to Broadway. If he stopped relying on his parents help over the summer, for a place to stay and work, he would eventually be able to escape from this realm of lies and addictions his parents have created.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ben that it is Jamie who is most likely to break-free and not Edmund. I feel that there is a tendency to side with Edmund because he is the ill one that the rest of the family seem to just throw around in the "blame game" as Emily and Madeleine mentioned earlier and because he tries to bring hope into the family by making an attempt to fix things in the family like his mother's addiction or his own illness.
ReplyDeleteJamie, however, is saying the most honest things out of everyone but he is getting no credit for it because he has a harsh tone when he says such things. Other readers have been saying that he is making the situation awkward and worse by bringing attention to certain things or like Tyrone says, Jamie only ever sees the negative sides of things or makes negative assumptions. Whoever said these were negative qualities? I think this is Jamie being real and honest and trying to bring attention to something that could possibly happen, and when it does happen he wants to plan accordingly as to how to handle the situation. Most of the topics he says (such as Mary's never-ending addiction or the fatality of Edmund's disease) are very negative but if you think about it they are very likely and so I think he is being realistic. And if Jamie did not point these things out, who will notice them? Everyone else just seems to be avoiding the situation because they are only focused on their own problems. The fact that Jamie brings attention to issues other than his own tells me that he is someone who actually cares about what is going on and that he wants to make a change in the family: that HE is the one with the hope because he is making an effort to change.
I disagree with Sofia when she mentions that she is disgusted by members of the family like Jamie for example. Yes, it is terrible and horrific to see somebody drunk on alcohol and go to whorehouses but I think it is completely understandable of Jamie to take such actions with the situation he is in and the environment he is coming from so you can not fully blame him when he needs escape and there are so little things he can do to make himself feel better. Also, his tone is very cynical like Sam says but I believe it gives him a stronger character in that he is definite of what he is saying because he is definite of his feelings, which makes me see Jamie as a brave character who is not afraid to be himself, and therefore that makes him someone who has the courage to break-free.
Everyone has already made their strong opinion about the family and Edmund, which I totally agree with. O'Neill put himself in Edmund's place (he has an older brother named Eugene who died in infancy). It seems Mary has never stopped seeing Edmund as her little son who replaced Eugene, the baby who Mary had so much hope for. Mary can't forget the past, but she says she will try to forgive herself. While we cannot trust her to make such an effort, it seems that forgiving the past mistakes of Tyrone and her sons is the only way that Mary can stop her addiction for using morphine to allow herself to escape from reality. However, while the men hate Mary's addiction, they choose to do the same thing because they think their drug of choice is more acceptable. For this part, I have realized that as the family grows older, they have a tendency to idealize the dreams of the past in such a fashion as to become disenchanted and hopelessly ineffectual in the present.
ReplyDeleteJust like most of the people has have said, I believe that Edmund has the biggest chance of moving on. Since Edmund is the youngest out of all the family members, he has a better chance of becoming a normal person who is noit stuck in the past. Unlike Mary who is constantly bringing up the past, Edmund seems to be less stuck in the past. Because he was in the environment much less than any of his family members, he seems to have a higher chance of breaking apart from the past.
ReplyDeleteAlso agreeing with sumi I believe that Jamie also has a good chance of moving on becuause he seems to be the one who is understanding the situation the most. When his father and his mother is constantly revealing the problems from the past he knows that these problems are not going to be solved. And Agreeing with Madeleine, I would really like to pull Mary away from her situation becuase all that she wanted from her family was to be happy and have a good home. And I beilieve that having a stable home and a happy family is not a hard thing to accomplish, with communication and moving on from the past, I think that there is a high chance for Mary to change.
I disagree with Sam's idea: "In a way, I think that his drinking is almost a form of accepting death. He knows that he has consumption and that drinking is very bad for him while in this weakened state, and yet he still gets hammered." I disagree with this statement because although Edmund is aware that he shouldn't be drinking, it is an un-concious choice because he is an addict. As we discussed in class, we know that it is not an addicts fault to continue in their addiction, much of it is mental. That being said, I feel as though edmund is capable of breaking his addiction and succeeding while the others, are not. Although Blair and Sam show successfully that all 4 members of the family posses redeeming qualities at times,(Similar to what Alison had mentioned) Edmunds ability to accept blame and not push it onto others is what sets him apart from the rest of his family, in a positive sense. Because Edmund is able to realize that you set your own path in life, while his family is not, this is what makes him different and will allow Edmund to break free.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Emily and Jenny also that the sanatorium might cure Edmund's drinking problems. Edmund's drinking was caused by stress from his family. I believe Edmund will face reality and break away from his lies in the sanatorium. At home he kept himself together through lies, such as denying his mother's morphine addiction, removing him away from reality (the fog), drinking, and being the peacekeeper of the family. Annie L. stated that Edmund was based off of O’Neill and was cured and later successful. O’Neill did break away, but he also had to face his past in the sanatorium, which followed him through his whole life. O’Neill faced his past which was reflected in his plays which were based off of his own experiences. The sanatorium may turn Edmund over to the good, but creates an opposite effect on his family. As we saw when Edmund got sicker the family got worse (mother started morphine addiction, father blaming, and James drinking). I disagree with Sam that Edmund’s darkness is a sign of accepting his fate. I believe by stating dark quotes he is trying to show the reality to his family. With these qualities Edmund can turn around, but his tragic past will still follow him in the future.
ReplyDeleteIn reading the play, I found it, at times, difficult to sympathize for all of the characters at certain given points. Each of the characters is so engrossed in his/her mentality of self-pitying shame, that many of them don't even consider trying to solve them, and instead forget by consuming more and more alcohol or morphine, as the case may be.
ReplyDeleteHowever, this having been said, I would say that Edmund is the most likely to escape his demons and lead an unburdened, happy life. Edmund's problems clearly stem from his depressed, low psychology, which manifests as his nihilistic and bleak view on life in general. This, in turn leads to his drinking and makes him somewhat parallel to the other members of the family and their own substance abuse. However, unlike Mary, who wallows in an excessive self-pity, or Jamie, who almost genuinely seems to not care, Edmund is extremely cognitive, and has an extremely philosophical nature. We must realize, too, that Eugene O'Neill himself is portrayed as Edmund, so here we realize some sort of nod in that direction.
More importantly than any of that, however, is the realization that for all of Edmund's negativity, he, too, has a bright outlook on life, while nonetheless being outbalanced by his depression. Take, for, example this passage which he quotes from Baudelaire:
"'Be always drunken. Nothing else matters: that is the only question. If you would not feel the horrible burden of Time weighing on your shoulders and crushing you to the earth, be drunken continually.
Drunken with what? With what, with poetry, or with virtue, as you will. But be drunken...'"
(p. 135, O'Neill)
In this way, we see that, unlike the other characters, Edmund has hope, and this, in effect is the most important aspect of psychological recovery.
I also agree with Emily, in regards to the issue of blame. As far as one can see, Edmund is the only one who doesn't place blame on others, and is often the recipient of blame. This, furthermore, contributes to his bleak outlook on life.
ReplyDeleteWhile Ben has a point about Jamie, I feel that he underestimates Edmund's capacity. His need for solitude is more evidently a need to escape from the family, and can't be viewed much further beyond that and its nihilistic implications. This is simply an elaboration upon this aspect of his psychology.
I know the we are asked if we can make a case that one of the family members may break free from his or her demons, but from my personal point of view, none of them do. They are all too deeply flawed and the past is such a constant part of their lives and they don't seem to ever want to move out of it. As Mary says on page 90: "The past is the present, isn't it? It's the future, too. We all try to lie out of that but life won't let us." To have the mother of the family say this with such certainty is an indicator of the way these people have led their lives. In order to break free from demons you must have a strong sense of stability, and the Tyrones—as Mary keeps stating—did not have a home. Even the way the play ends, with no clear resolution, implies "the madness" will continue.
ReplyDeleteThis being said, I agree with what other people have said about Edmund being the one that is the most likely to indeed break free. I don't think the sanitarium alone will be responsible for this, but the fact that he seems to be the most functional of them all; as somebody else has said, being more of an observer rather than a participant. This could be the way Eugene saw himself in his family: as a spectator to the show that was going on around him. On another comment, I completely disagree with the statement that Edmund's way of drinking is a way of accepting death, because, well, he doesn't know he has tuberculosis. How can he accept a disease and attempt to deal with it if he doesn't even know he's sick?
I don't think Jamie is the one with the most chances to break free, in part because he is older and also because he shows no desire to break free. The element of addiction is something that is very prominent throughout the play, can we consider that the characters in the play are also addicted to their own dysfunctional dynamics?
As most of people said, I think Edmund is one of the characters may break free from his demons. As Jenny mentioned, Edmund is yongest son in family, he would have more potential to be changed. And also, I agree with Jake that Edmund is realistic about his illness and a hope for better situations. I want to say that having a hope can really read one self to change. I believe that other family members are already stuck with their mind sets that they have now. However, Edmund seems to be caring her mother more than any other family members. In my opinion, when someone cares about other, which means when someone still has any kind of feelings toward other,the demon inside is most likely to disappear. In Edmund's case, even it's because of guiltiness and sympathy he has toward his mother, he still shows some kind of care to Mary. So in my opinion Edmund is the one who is most likely to change.
ReplyDeleteEdmund is the Tyrone with the most redeeming qualities. If anyone can break free of the substance abuse, and mental cyclicality the rest of the family suffers from it is Edmund. All of the Tyrones suffer from broken dreams which continues to haunt their relationships with each other creating constant conflict. Edmund is young and has yet to full cling to a dream and have it fall through. Granted he is suffering from an illness, he can be very successful if he gets over it in the sanitarium. Edmund more than anyone in the play has moved on from the past. He seems to be hopeful and forward-looking. Mary, Jamie, and Jamie Senior.All of them seem to be stuck on things. For Tyrone, its the past traditions and work ethic. For Mary its the loss of a home, and the desire to find out if she missed out because she went with Tyrone. And for Jamie its a sad jealousy of his younger brother, whores, and alcohol. All of their issues are roughly related to the past and they won't allow themselves to move forward. Edmund is sick but desires to get over it. He dreams of being a journalist and reads modern as well as old literature. Mentally he can find stability which will lead him to success emotionally. Hopefully his time away from his family will do that for him. More than just his physical illness can be cured during his stay in the sanitarium.
ReplyDeleteTo comment on Madeleine's first post about Mary pulling through. That would be nice but it won't happen she is so lost. She's been on the verge of death and still wants to kill herself, but fears "the virgin", fears God's wrath on her soul. Mary, seems to fit directly into the monolog Edmund is talking about when he speaks to Tyrone(133). Mary is that alive but really dead person that Edmund talks about. I have an overwhelming sense of sadness for Mary but the fact is there is no hope for her.
ReplyDeleteAs what mostly everyone has said I have to agree that Edmund is more likely to break away from his inner demons. He has the most redeeming qualities from anyone in his family. He by far is the most honest and realistic. If he survives his sickness he definitely has the potential to become a great success. Although he is weak and can be naive, he's the voice of reason in his family. Whenever we played spot the truth while reading the play, you could always trust that Edmund was speaking the truth, or at least what he believed to be the truth.
ReplyDeleteCommenting on Mr. Cooke's post..
I agree with what he has to say about Edmund. Edmund has dreams..other members of the family are too stuck on the past to move forward. Edmund is able to recognize that there is a future ahead of him, unlike his family members. Being with his family pulls him into the past making it hard for him to keep that forward motion. Time away from his family will do him a lot of good.
This is JCK posting a response from Katharine, who cannot seem to post:
ReplyDeleteI agree with what everybody is saying. Edmund is the only character that I can see pulling out of the mess he's made of his life. If the sanitorium works, his consumption with be gone and maybe his drinking problem would go away. Speaking of the drinking problem... although I do believe that Edmund has a problem he doesn't have an addiction.
"pouring a big drink - a bit drunkenly. Enough is not as good as a feast. He hands back the bottle."
Maybe I'm wrong, he just seems to drink a lot less than Jamie who is the family alcoholic, or maybe it is just a family of alcoholics and dope fiends. And although no one would probably agree with me on this, I think Edmund's redeeming qualities ARE that he's sensitive and "fragile." Those qualities make him more human to the reader, unlike Jamie who's just a huge, pardon my french, he's a huge bitch to deal with. Jamie is always drunk and on top of that, he is basically James Tyrone's personal money leech, and on top of that he wants to see Edmund fail, and on top of that he never had any big hopes for his mother to come out of her addiction. His one redeeming quality, like Annie said and I agree, is that he cares deeply for his family. It may not seem like it the majority of the time, but it creeps out time to time.
I, like Maddie, really wish that Mary would pull out of her Morphine addiction. It's true that O'Neill writes her as though she wants things to get better. She wants a home, not just a house, and she wants to love James again. Mary is too stuck in the past though. Everytime she takes morphine she goes further into her past life where I think she feels safe, and maybe the happiest she's ever felt. She's too stuck in the past for there to ever be a present or a future, especially without drugs. She is too addicted to stop.
"vaguely. I must go upstairs I haven't taken enough. She pauses - the longingly. I hope, sometime, without meaning it, I will take an overdose..."